Greek Texts & Translations

You are right, and we agree with what you say.

Further, we agreed long ago that if men are capable of ruling themselves, they are good, but if incapable, bad.

Quite true.

Let us, then, re-state more clearly 644cwhat we meant by this. With your permission, I will make use of an illustration in the hope of explaining the matter.

Go ahead.

May we assume that each of us by himself is a single unit?

Yes.

And that each possesses within himself two antagonistic and foolish counsellors, whom we call by the names of pleasure and pain?

That is so.

And that, besides these two, each man possesses opinions about the future, which go by the general name of “expectations”; and of these, that which precedes pain bears the special name of “fear,” and that which precedes pleasure the special name of “confidence”; 644dand in addition to all these there is “calculation,” pronouncing which of them is good, which bad; and “calculation,” when it has become the public decree of the State, is named “law.”

I have some difficulty in keeping pace with you: assume, however, that I do so, and proceed.

I am in exactly the same predicament.

Let us conceive of the matter in this way. Let us suppose that each of us living creatures is an ingenious puppet of the gods, whether contrived by way of a toy of theirs or for some serious purpose—for as to that we know nothing; 644ebut this we do know, that these inward affections of ours, like sinews or cords, drag us along and, being opposed to each other, pull one against the other to opposite actions; and herein lies the dividing line between goodness and badness. For, as our argument declares, there is one of these pulling forces which every man should always follow and nohow leave hold of, counteracting thereby the pull of the other sinews: 645ait is the leading-string, golden and holy, of “calculation,” entitled the public law of the State; and whereas the other cords are hard and steely and of every possible shape and semblance, this one is flexible and uniform, since it is of gold. With that most excellent leading-string of the law we must needs co-operate always; for since calculation is excellent, but gentle rather than forceful, its leading-string needs helpers to ensure that the golden kind within us may vanquish the other kinds. 645bIn this way our story comparing ourselves to puppets will not fall flat, and the meaning of the terms “self-superior” and “self-inferior” will become somewhat more clear, and also how necessary it is for the individual man to grasp the true account of these inward pulling forces and to live in accordance therewith, and how necessary for the State (when it has received such an account either from a god or from a man who knows) to make this into a law for itself and be guided thereby in its intercourse both with itself and with all other States. 645cThus both badness and goodness would be differentiated for us more clearly; and these having become more evident, probably education also and the other institutions will appear less obscure; and about the institution of the wine-party in particular it may very likely be shown that it is by no means, as might be thought, a paltry matter which it is absurd to discuss at great length but rather a matter which folly merits prolonged discussion.

Quite right: let us go through with every topic that seems important for the present discussion. 645d

Tell me now: if we give strong drink to this puppet of ours, what effect will it have on its character?

In reference to what particular do you ask this question?

To no particular, for the moment: I am putting the question in general terms—“when this shares in that, what sort of thing does it become in consequence?” I will try to convey my meaning still more clearly: what I ask is this—does the drinking of wine intensify pleasures and pains and passions and lusts?

Yes, greatly. 645e

And how about sensations and recollections and opinions and thoughts? Does it make them likewise more intense? Or rather, do not these quit a man entirely if he becomes surfeited with drink?

Yes, they quit him entirely.

He then arrives at the same condition of soul as when he was a young child?

He does.

So at that moment he will have very little control of himself? 646a

Very little.

And such a man is, we say, very bad?

Very, indeed.

It appears, then, that not the grey-beard only may be in his “second childhood,” but the drunkard as well.

An admirable observation, Stranger.

Is there any argument which will undertake to persuade us that this is a practice we ought to indulge in, instead of shunning it with all our might so far as we possibly can?

It appears that there is: at any rate you assert this, and you were ready just now to argue it.