Greek Texts & Translations

Neither of us, I think, could possibly argue against your view.

Our next subject I must handle myself. I maintain that all the three choirs ^note must enchant the souls of the children, while still young and tender, by rehearsing all the noble things which we have already recounted, or shall recount hereafter; and let this be the sum of them: in asserting that one and the same life is declared by the gods to be both most pleasant and most just, we shall not only be saying what is most true, 664cbut we shall also convince those who need convincing more forcibly than we could by any other assertion.

We must assent to what you say.

First, then, the right order of procedure will be for the Muses' choir of children to come forward first to sing these things with the utmost vigor and before the whole city; second will come the choir of those under thirty, invoking Apollo Paian ^note as witness of the truth of what is said, and praying him of grace to persuade the youth. 664dThe next singers will be the third choir, of those over thirty and under sixty; and lastly, there were left those who, being no longer able to uplift the song, shall handle the same moral themes in stories and by oracular speech.

Whom do you mean, Stranger, by these third choristers. For we do not grasp very clearly what you intend to convey about them.

Yet they are in fact the very people to whom most of our previous discourse was intended to lead up. 664e

We are still in the dark: try to explain yourself more clearly still.

At the commencement of our discourse we said, if we recollect, that since all young creatures are by nature fiery, they are unable to keep still either body or voice, but are always crying and leaping in disorderly fashion; we said also that none of the other creatures attains a sense of order, bodily and vocal, and that this is possessed by man alone; and that the order 665aof motion is called “rhythm,” while the order of voice (in which acute and grave are blended together) is termed “harmony,” and to the combination of these two the name “choristry” is given. We stated also that the gods, in pity for us, have granted to us as fellow-choristers and choir-leaders Apollo and the Muses,—besides whom we mentioned, if we recollect, a third, Dionysus.

Certainly we recollect.

The choir of Apollo and that of the Muses have been described, and the third and remaining 665bchoir must necessarily be described, which is that of Dionysus.

How so? Tell us; for at the first mention of it, a Dionysiac choir of old men sounds mighty strange,—if you mean that men over thirty, and even men over fifty and up to sixty, are really going to dance in his honor.

That is, indeed, perfectly true. It needs argument, I fancy, to show how such a procedure would be reasonable.

It does.

Are we agreed about our previous proposals? 665c

In what respect?

That it is the duty of every man and child—bond and free, male and female,—and the duty of the whole State, to charm themselves unceasingly with the chants we have described, constantly changing them and securing variety in every way possible, so as to inspire the singers with an insatiable appetite for the hymns and with pleasure therein.

Assuredly we would agree as to the duty of doing this. 665d

Then where should we put the best element in the State,—that which by age and judgment alike is the most influential it contains,—so that by singing its noblest songs it might do most good? Or shall we be so foolish as to dismiss that section which possesses the highest capacity for the noblest and most useful songs?

We cannot possibly dismiss it, judging from what you now say.

What seemly method can we adopt about it? Will the method be this?

What?

Every man as he grows older becomes reluctant to sing songs, and takes less pleasure in doing so; and when compelled to sing, 665ethe older he is and the more temperate, the more he will feel ashamed. Is it not so?

It is.

Surely, then, he will be more than ever ashamed to get up and sing in the theater, before people of all sorts. Moreover, if old men like that were obliged to do as the choristers do, who go lean and fasting when training their voices for a competition, they would assuredly find singing an unpleasant and degrading task, and they would undertake it with no great readiness.