Greek Texts & Translations

I can assure you, Stranger, that if some god were to promise us that, 683cin making this second attempt to investigate legislation, we shall listen to a discourse that is no worse and no shorter than that we have just been listening to, I for one would go a long way to hear it; indeed, this would seem quite a short day, although it is, as a matter of fact, close on midsummer.

So it seems that we must proceed with our enquiry.

Most certainly.

Let us, then, place ourselves in imagination at that epoch when Lacedaemon, together with Argos and Messene and the adjoining districts, had become completely subject, 683dMegillus, to your forefathers. They determined next, according to the tradition, to divide their host into three parts, and to establish three States,—Argos, Messene and Lacedaemon.

Very true.

And Temenus became King of Argos, Cresphontes of Messene, and Proclus and Eurysthenes of Lacedaemon.

Of course.

And all the men of that time swore that they would assist these kings 683eif anyone should try to wreck their kingdoms.

Quite so.

Is the dissolution of a kingdom, or of any government that has ever yet been dissolved, caused by any other agency than that of the rulers themselves? Or, though we made this assertion a moment ago when we happened upon this subject, have we now forgotten it? ^note

How could we possibly have forgotten?

Shall we further confirm that assertion now? For we have come to the same view now, as it appears, in dealing with facts of history; so that we shall be examining it with reference not to a mere abstraction, 684abut to real events. Now what actually took place was this: each of the three royal houses, and the cities under their sway, swore to one another, ^note according to the laws, binding alike on ruler and subject, which they had made,—the rulers that, as time went on and the nation advanced, they would refrain from making their rule more severe, and the subjects that, so long as the rulers kept fast to their promise, they would never upset the monarchy themselves, nor would they allow others to do so; and they swore that the kings should aid both kings and peoples 684bwhen wronged, and the peoples aid both peoples and kings. Was not that the way of it?

It was.

In the polities legally established—whether by the kings or others—in the three States, was not this the most important principle?

What?

That the other two States should always help against the third, whenever it disobeyed the laws laid down.

Evidently.

And surely most people insist on this,— 684cthat the lawgivers shall enact laws of such a kind that the masses of the people accept them willingly; just as one might insist that trainers or doctors should make their treatments or cures of men's bodies pleasurable.

Exactly so.

But in fact one often has to be content if one can bring a body into a sound and healthy state with no great amount of pain.

Very true. 684d

The men of that age possessed also another advantage which helped not a little to facilitate legislation. ^note

What was that?

Their legislators, in their efforts to establish equality of property, were free from that worst of accusations which is commonly incurred in States with laws of a different kind, whenever anyone seeks to disturb the occupation of land, or to propose the abolition of debts, since he perceives that without these measures equality could never be fully secured. In such cases, if the lawgiver attempts to disturb any of these things, 684eeveryone confronts him with the cry, “Hands off,” and they curse him for introducing redistributions of land and remissions of debts, with the result that every man is rendered powerless. But the Dorians had this further advantage, that they were free from all dread of giving offence, so that they could divide up their land without dispute; and they had no large debts of old standing. ^note

True

How was it then, my good sirs, that their settlement and legislation turned out so badly?