Greek Texts & Translations

We, at least, Stranger, would certainly agree that every State should both ordain and practice these things.

Are we all aware of the reason why such choristry and such contests do not at present exist anywhere in the States, except to a very small extent? Shall we say that this is due to the ignorance of the populace and of those who legislate for them?

Possibly.

Not so, by any means, my ingenious Clinias! What we ought to say 831cis that there are two causes, and both most weighty ones.

What are they?

The first springs from a lust for wealth which allows a man no leisure time for attention to anything else save his own private property; and when the soul of every citizen hangs upon this, it is incapable of attending to matters other than daily gain. Whatsoever science or pursuit leads to this, every man individually is most ready to learn and to practice; but all else he laughs to scorn. 831dThis we must assert to be one particular cause why a State is unwilling to be in earnest about this, or any other, fine and noble pursuit; and why, on the other hand, every individual, because of his greed for silver and gold, is willing to toil at every art and device, noble or ignoble, if he is likely to get rich by it,—willing, too, to perform actions both holy and unholy—nay, utterly shameful—without a scruple, 831eprovided only that he is able to sate himself to repletion, like a beast, with all manner of foods and drinks and wenchings.

True.

Then let this which I describe be laid down as one cause which hinders the States from adequately practicing either military operations or any other noble pursuits and which turns men who are of a quiet nature ^note into traders, ship-owners, and servants, while of the bold it makes pirates, burglars, temple-robbers, fighters 832aand despots,—and that though, in some cases, they are not ill-natured, but merely ill-fortuned.

How so?

Well, how could I describe otherwise than as utterly unfortunate men who are compelled to go through life with hunger ^note always in their own souls?

This, then, is one cause: what is the second cause you speak of, Stranger?

You are right in reminding me.

One cause, as you assert, is this lifelong insatiable pursuit, which wholly engrosses each man, and hinders each and all from rightly practicing military operations. 832bBe it so: now tell us the second cause.

Do you think that I am delaying to do so because I am at a loss?

No; but we think that, owing to a sort of hatred against the character you describe, you are castigating it more severely than is required by the argument now on hand.

Your rebuke is just, Strangers; you want, it seems, to hear what comes next.

Only say on.

There lies a cause, as I affirm, in those non-polities which I have often mentioned ^note in our previous discourse,—namely, democracy, 832coligarchy, and tyranny. For none of these is a polity, but the truest name for them all would be “faction-State”; for none of them is a form of voluntary rule over willing subjects, but a voluntary rule over unwilling subjects accompanied always by some kind of force; and the ruler, through fear of the subject, will never voluntarily allow him to become noble or wealthy or strong or brave or in any way warlike. These, then, are the two main causes of nearly everything, and certainly of the conditions we described. 832dThe polity, however, for which we are now legislating has escaped both these causes; for not only does it enjoy a great amount of leisure, ^note but the citizens also are free from one another's domination, and as a consequence of these laws of ours they will be the least likely of men to be money-lovers. Hence it is both natural and logical that of all existing polities this type alone should welcome the system above described, which combines military schooling with sport, when we have rightly completed that description.

Very good.

The next step, then, is to remind ourselves,